Welcome on in. Yeah. Lots to talk about. And how are you today? Hey, it was great. Great to meet you finally. In person. Obviously we’ve been talking for years and that was, that was really cool. That was a great event there in New York. And yeah, that was eons ago. It was $60 up and $30 down ago, basically in silver.

But yeah, exciting times in, in our market, as you said. I mean, last week we were already seeing letter le levels that were frenetic and higher than we’d ever seen, and then. Friday was just out of, you know, just off the charts. Just absolutely pan absolute pandemonium. With that, with that crazy drop.

When you know people, you know, it’s kind of scary if you look at that chart. But it’s interesting, you know, it’s kind of scary until you, you think about like three weeks earlier, it was at that price, you know, that came back down to so we need to, we need to be patient and keep our expectations in check, but it’s it’s a volatile ride and, and it’s probably gonna get even more volatile as we go along here.

That’s pretty much what I have forecast. If someone asks me, well, what do you think the price of silver is gonna be in the next one to three months? I don’t know, somewhere between 40 and 200. Although certainly I think you can expect more volatility I think that’s safe to say. Here’s a look at the long-term chart, which doesn’t have the spike to one 20 in there, although.

Interesting. When you see that, how do you respond? Because normally if you take the name off and look at any chart like that, you might think a pullback could be coming, of which we certainly saw one yet as you were describing. Perhaps you could talk a little bit more about the, the people who came in and were buying.

I would guess that it was largely existing. Gold and silver stackers, but were there new people? What? What could you share about that? Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, the volatility really prompts people on all sides to take action. You know, you have longtime holders that are selling, especially as we led up to that.

That run up that we got up to 120 last Thursday. A lot of long time holders were taking profits, not selling their position, not selling out, but taking some profits. And there’s nothing wrong with that, of course. That’s, you know, nobody ever went broke taking a profit. That’s a great, a great thing to keep in mind.

So that we’ve had a lot of long time holders selling and then also some adding to their positions. But really the story I think of the last. 45 days, 30 days has been the new people coming in and coming in in ways, you know, that are unsustainable un a impossible for the industry to absorb. Because it’s, it’s a very small industry.

I mean, honestly, you know, one to 2% of the American people own any gold or silver other than jewelry. Maybe they have an ETF share or a mining stock in, in, you know, in their account. But physical gold and silver is not something that is widely held. Especially in larger amounts and you know, that’s a lot of potential growth.

So when you go from 2% to 4%. Or 3% or 5%. I mean these are, you know, 50, a hundred percent increases, unsustainable across the supply chain, across the dealer network, across the minting and wholesale network. And I mean, we really started to see that acceleration of new blood coming in since probably mid-December.

And I think that that’s only going to continue. I think we’re seeing that, you know, on the correction, people that. Were watching the headlines, seeing that run up, suddenly saw, you know, a massive pullback and jumped in. And it was just completely complete pandemonium on Friday and through the weekend.

It was, it was very, very busy. I mean, honestly, we are. Focusing on, you know, we’re not necessarily focusing on, on prospecting right now just because there’s so much volume already that we just need to make sure we can handle the volume we have serve our customers well, especially our longtime existing customers.

Make sure that we’re on top of the fulfillment backlogs and the, and the, you know, the different. You know, customer service issues that come up when you have this kind of volume, just processing all the inquiries and, and responding to people and all that stuff and hiring. So it’s, it’s really intense.

Really intense. I mean, there’s definitely a lot more out there, a lot of people coming in, and we’re still seeing that this week. Well, it’s funny you mentioned that. I saw your one of your articles where you mentioned, I think you’ve hired 50 people in the last month or so, and I, I was thinking about your 70, but yeah.

Se up to 70. Yeah, we need about 50 more. You know, we’re gonna run outta space at some point. I mean, it’s, it’s incredible. It really is. Okay. I mean, we already have, we have a, we’re a pretty big company already, but you know, that’s a lot of people to add quickly. And you talk about training, you talk about the special specialized knowledge that is needed, you know, to, you know, for example, just, you know, inventory packing boxes is not too difficult, but there’s other things like quality control, people selling to you.

All of that has to be carefully examined, tested, checked before it can be put into inventory. Of course, on the sales side, the admin, you know, there’s a lot of complexity. Onboarding a lot of people quickly is difficult, and we’re doing the best we can. I think we’re doing pretty well with it, but yeah, it’s, sorry, I, I, that was just jumping in there.

Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s 70 and, and, and continuing. You mentioned the, that inflation is high, which I think myself and most of the people watching this would probably agree with, but it’s intriguing. We’re seeing 80, a hundred dollars, $120 silver, $5,000 gold. Before, I would imagine, I don’t think most people who are in the mainstream audience think inflation is a problem yet.

And obviously there’s, I mean, we look at Onshoring and a million other things. It seems a good, bad, it will go higher, but we’re seeing this before there’s been the next inflation wave, before the debt has been addressed or let alone resolved. So it’s like, and, and then on top of it, we have the fed futures curve.

They’re pricing in two rate cuts. 2 25 basis rate cuts over the next two years. Well, Trump just put in his guy Kevin Walsh. Yeah. The media somehow calculated was hawkish yet what if he is taking rates down to that 1% level that Trump is said, that’s where he thinks they should be. So there’s, even with this price is still some big elephants coming quickly down the road.

Yeah. Yeah, there’s a real disconnect, I think. I think the inflation of course, is higher than we, than it’s reported. But to have the Fed l loosening in, in a inflationary boom of really a, you know, hard asset boom. I mean, that just, that’s part of the reason it’s happening, honestly. It’s not the only reason a deglobalization is also impacting that.

And. So, you know, there’s just a lot of inflationary pressures building. It’s remarkable for the Federal Reserve to be in a, in a rate cutting cycle in this environment. But that’s the system. I mean, the system, the, the monetary system is to counteract. Basically they’re, they’re deathly afraid of inflation.

They wanna pop prop up asset prices, and, and they’re successful at doing that. And they have the unlimited ability to do that. And the most important thing for them is to make sure the debt burden is manageable. And it’s, you know, obviously inflation is, is a benefit to the debtors. The biggest debtor of them all is the US government and.

That’s what you’re gonna get. It’s basically negative real interest rates, and that’s called financial repression. And it basically harms savers, it harms people who hold fixed obligation or fixed income. And it, and it basically benefits debtors and it benefits people that can hedge or know how to, to manage their personal affairs, to basically harness that.

To their advantage. And, you know, central banks are doing that. They’re de dollarizing people that own a home. They’re, they benefit and they’re, you know, it’s not as liquid as gold, but it’s another tangible asset that, you know, benefits from zeros being added to the currency. And so that’s really the lifeboat, is you have to get out of you know, fixed income and try to focus on getting some exposure to hard assets.

And one of the, the greatest ones is gold and silver. And we’re seeing now that the world kind of awakened to that. I, I, I think it’s mostly outside of the country as far as people that are, that get it. Asia, a lot of this is being driven by physical demand in Asia, not just India, but of course China.

And so, and then central banks on the gold side who have been buying gold hand over fist for the last, last three years. So I think it’s slowly kind of winding around and the American people. Who’ve been misled by their financial advisors and, and Wall Street, which is so enamored with financial leverage and paper investments.

I think things are kind of, you know, coming home to roost and, and I think, you know, again, I think we’re still real, real early in this. Yeah. And I, I think my favorite part, I’m writing notes down, you’re bringing up so many great topics, although I love what you said. The government, their main priority is managing the debt, which.

Not doing incredibly well with, yeah. Although Stefan, back to the retail level, I was hoping you could put this into perspective for people. It’s not something they can easily look up somewhere, but I’ve been reading, talking with bull dealers that over the past, I would say three years, maybe you could be more precise, but a lot of selling at what has been described to me as historic levels.

Mm-hmm. I know you said there’s been a lot of two-way activity over the past couple months, but could you maybe like go back a little bit in time when you started noticing increased selling? Yeah. And bring us to now. Yeah. So of course COVID from 2020 to 2022 and early 2023. That was a very. Busy time in our market.

A lot of new people coming in. You know, you had the inflation, you had the government, you had martial law, you know, you had all kind World War iii, you know, the, the, the, the Russia invasion, all the, you know, all the wor worries of that kind of stuff. So then they had the bank thing, the bank run, the regional bank crisis in early 2023.

That was sort of the end of, of the really frenetic period in our, in our retail market prior to the more recent, basically six months or three months. So basically late 2023. To mid 2025. It was slow on the buy side and it was picking up on the sell side, meaning people were seeing, and it started with gold because gold was really moving.

Remember kind of, it kind of pivoted around the time of the Ukraine war in 2022. And then started on an uptrend and then it started accelerating 20 24, 20 25. So as gold was rising, we started seeing a lot more people selling gold that had long held it for a long time, and of course it went, you know, more than doubled in in the last.

Two years. So we, we saw a lot of gold selling back to retail. Not as much silver until last year, 2025. And you know, of course once it took off from the thirties and started heading to 50 and and to a hundred, it really picked up big time the last few months. So, you know, we, we started buying a lot more silver from our customers.

You know, we’re an online retailer, so we don’t bear the brunt of the selling in the same way the local coin shops do. People tend to like to walk in and even if they get paid less locally, they can walk out with their money right away. Otherwise they have to ship it to someone like us, maybe get a little bit more, or they have it in a depository, sell it from the depository.

But a lot of the local dealers had this massive sort of imbalance between what they were buying and what they were selling. And so that caused all these local guys had to flip to wholesalers. Some of it got sent off to refineries. Basically that caused the whole premium structure to start falling and falling.

And you know, it’s, that’s been a condition really for the last two years. Started, like I said, with gold and then it, it kind of moved to both silver and gold. So, you know, it was now just in the last two or three months, so we really saw the retail buying pickup. So now you had, and you still have the selling, so now you have a very active market on both sides.

But. You know, it’s really, we’ve seen a lot of dislocations in our market with backlogs at refineries in particular. And so, like junk silver, for example, still just flooded the market. We’re selling it for several dollars under spot@moneymetals.com right now. You can’t get it refined at all, so it’s not a great time to be selling junk silver if you’re a long-term holder because you’re gonna get quite a discount to spot in the current market.

It, it’s not three nine’s pier, and so it can’t be. Transformed into other products that might be more, more able to be sold. So that’s led to a big glut in the 90% silver right now, and the premium structure has really fallen, even as retail dam demand has picked up Junk silver, at least at money metals, is still well below spot.

So it’s, it’s it’s. Things, interesting things are happening. The refining situation has definitely impacted the, the local guys in particular, the scrap commingles, they’re having lots of trouble. Some refineries are just outright refusing to accept scrap, 90% silver, even three nine silver. Some of them are, aren’t accepting that, and even if they do accept it, it will be months before you get paid and that’s really shut down the funding mechanism around a lot of these local.

Local dealers in particular. So it’s, it’s really had a knock on effect on bids and also just the liquidity of the small guys. So really, you know, on the, on the minted product, there’s, there’s an outlet and that’s new buyers. And of course those have now just suddenly come rushing in in the last few weeks.

So I think, you know, you’ll start seeing bid premiums start coming up. You know, you’re already seeing premiums on the buy side. Rise as well because of the higher demand, especially things like silver eagles, which is not really the thing people should be buying, but people do. So it’s a very interesting market right now.

And you know, one of the other problems is there just isn’t silver refining capacity in the US So like 60% of it’s in China and there’s a premium in China for silver. So some of the silver that’s going, you know, going into China is not gonna come back out because why would it, there’s a premium domestically over the spot price.

And so, you know, we do have some issues in our, in our precious metal supply chain here in the us, particularly with lack of refining capacity. That’s something that maybe we’ll see progress on as, as, you know, the deglobalization unfolds and people see the consequences of, of not having the capacity here, especially from a national security standpoint.

Yeah. You, you touched on a bunch of the items on my list here, because I’d really like to get this in perspective for folks with what’s happening, the refiners, especially where it’s like you see secondary product has become its own market. From the newly minted. Right. Although just to set that up, I had a bullying dealer on last week and he mentioned one of the changes in, now I think he said the refiners aren’t sending the payment.

There’s a delay in the payment, but something where the cash flows now have stopped, which doesn’t mean much to most people in gold and silver, but. If you’re on the retail level means a lot, and perhaps you could do, could touch on that. Yeah. So the way a refinery works typically is, so you have all these smaller com commingles of scrap, and then you have local coin shops and, and there’s certain things that they buy particularly, you know, sterling silver or junk silver coins.

Things that are not pure silver that need to be. Melted and refined in order to basically get the money out. And so they have relationships with refiners, and what the way it normally works is they, they send it off and as soon as it arrives, the, the refinery will check it and maybe do some initial testing, and then they’ll let them take in advance off of that metal before it’s been refined.

And then those. Parties, those businesses take those funds and continue their business model, which is to buy scrap or buy, buy junk silver coins or, or whatever. But when they’re no longer able to get advances, which has now been rolled out by several large refineries they essentially are being told, look, you know, we’ll, we may be willing to refine your stuff.

And it, by the way, it’s taking mo weeks or months longer than usual, particularly on silver. We may accept it, but you’re gonna have to finance it where we cannot pay you until the end because we’ve just, you know, exceeded our available capacity to do that. And not only that, but it’s not just about credit lines, but it’s also about the lease market because a lot of refineries, in order to finance their metal.

In production and to be able to pay people those advances. They have been borrowing metal from the bullion banks and all the dislocations that have been happening in the market with, you know, the spread, you know, between London and New York and China, and all of this has caused lease rates to rise, which means that now to borrow metal, if you’re a refinery and that’s how you finance your feed stock, well now you’re paying a much higher rate for that.

Privilege much higher than, say an interest rate on a line of credit. And so there’ve been times where, and this happened big time in October, where the lease rate went to like 10, 20, 30 cents an ounce per day on silver per day. Per day. So if you’re borrowing metal and you’re using a bullion BA bank lease, you were paying $3 or $1 an ounce over a weekend.

Just to, just to finance that metal. And so when you’re a refinery and you’re working on one, two, 3%, 4% margins to refine, to pay for all your machinery, to pay for the whole process, and you’re having a financing cost of, you know, 1% or half a percent a day. I mean, the whole thing just shuts down. So I mean, that’s not the situation at this very moment with lease rates.

But the point is that there’s so much metal in the mechanism, there’s so much backlog that the refinery simply cannot be people’s banks, you know? So if you wanna get something refined, yeah, they might do it for you, but you’re gonna have to hold ownership of that metal through the process. And then at the end when it’s.

Turned into something that actually can be sold on the global market. Four nine silver, three nine silver or a thousand ounce bars or whatever, which is really the ultimate liquidity in the market is on those large thousand ounce bars, which, ’cause that’s, that is the spot price, you know, and that’s the item that’s transacted to that spot price when you can actually get it by taking those bars and putting into the exchanges.

So if you’re. You know, if you’re a little guy, you gotta finance that for 3, 2, 3, 4 months through the refining process. And most of them can’t do that. And as a result, they can no longer go out and buy more scrap. Or if they do, they have to pay even lower. And so you can see how this has a knock on effect, but I wouldn’t really, I’m not worried about the refineries myself.

You know, I know people that are impacted by that go, oh my gosh, there’s a problem at the refineries. I think it’s a problem that, you know, has to do with. The massive backlogs and the fact that there’s all these little businesses that, you know, that normally have been able to rely on their counterparties for the financing that they, they can’t do themselves.

So it is just a really interesting dynamic. And it’s gonna take some time to clear this out. And frankly, if the selling continues, especially if metals, you know, silver and gold go back up again as they already are, you might see another wave of this. So again, lack of lack of capacity. And it’s just a small door and not everybody can go through that small door with the silver that’s being sold back.

How come the dealers aren’t reselling more of that out? I hear the newly minted stuff is starting to get less available and the premiums are higher, so. I mean, if someone comes in and wants to buy the cheapest silver, why aren’t they buying back the stuff that the refiners can’t handle? And it seems like there’s a backlog there.

Why isn’t more of that getting sent back out? That’s a good question. Well, I, I think the, the 90% silver coins, I think we’re definitely, that’s definitely true there. A lot of people are selling that. Not as many people are buying it, and you see that reflected in both the bids and the asks. As I mentioned, we’re selling, we’re selling for $3 under a spot right now.

That, that stuff, and we’d like to, you know, we’d probably will be dropping the price more because frankly we have more of it coming in than we’re selling out the front door. And I think the reason is because. Recently we see a lot of new investors coming in and they do not get the whole idea of 90% silver.

They want something new. They want something shiny. They don’t understand, you know, 90%. What well, does that mean it’s not announced? Does that mean it’s not? Well, yeah, it means it’s not pure, but it’s sold by the ounce and the copper you get for free, you know, so it is very complicated. Then the whole thing about, oh, well this is a quarter.

How, why is it worth $30? It’s just a quarter, you know, whatever the, the calculation is. Well, maybe about $20. It, by the way, that’s really remarkable if you think about it. Well, how much is a quarter that’s silver worth in silver? I mean, that’s almost 0.2 ounces. So that’s what, 16, $17? So one quarter from 1965 is today worth $17?

I mean, that’s such a great example of the devaluation of our money unit that’s occurred. But again, people don’t get that product. When they’re, when they’re a new customer for the most part. And so I think that that’s impacted the market there. I don’t know that. I don’t know that the secondary market is not being sold.

I mean, some of it is being reined into, into new, oh, well that’s not entirely true. There, there are situations where like we will sell, we will get a bunch of 10 ounce bars that come in and they’re, they’re not saleable necessarily. And most of the time when people sell us something back, it’s in good shape.

But it, you know, you go through it very carefully and say, okay, these are secondary market. There’s lots of dings on ’em, or they’re dirty or whatever, and these are like new or actually new. And so they get put in a different category. So sometimes the. The older stuff gets remelted and sent off to the mitts.

Which, you know, up until very recently were desperate for business. So they would even take one ounce rounds, you know, if it was convenient for you because they were happy to just get the volume. Because so much selling was happening a few months ago that there was almost no need for mints to do anything.

So I guess my point is some of that stuff that you’re talking about ends up getting remelted and minted into new stuff. And then the 90% silver, you can’t do that because it’s not pure silver. You can’t turn it into a 10 ounce bull bar. So, and you can’t get it refined very easily. So all you can really do is, is sell it for less and less on your spot or hold onto it long term if you’re one, if you’re a dealer like us.

So there’s just, just lots of different twists and turns in this market right now. Everybody is, is dealing with volume. And challenges in different ways. It’s also very exciting because it does mean the market is expanding. That’s part of why this is happening. Can someone in China who needs silver talk to the dealers round up a bunch of these lots?

Is it just too hard because of logistics, it’s small amounts, or do you think we could see something like that where they do have the refining capacity? Well, I could tell you that we’re having discussions with counterparties in other parts of the world about refining silver, including the 90% coins. So that’s about, I’ll say that I, I would not be surprised if we’re sending very large amounts of those out of the country to be refined.

Obviously, when you’re dealing with counterparties around the world’s. There’s new risks in introduced there, right? So, you know, it’s a little harder to go see them. It’s a little harder to understand their operations. You know, sometimes we, we would like to do a site visit first. So there are, there’s more friction and particularly in that part of the world.

Not only is a long ways away, but it’s, you know, maybe doesn’t ascribe to all the same legal norms that we’re used to in the West and the us. So there are risks, but yes, that is happening and that will, that will happen increasingly. I mean, I, I feel like there’s kind of a sucking sound coming out of a.

Of China for, for silver and other, other minerals. Not only are they scouring the globe, you know, going that maybe that’s part of the reason for the Don Row doctrine is to go push them out of South America because this is in many ways a resource war developing. And China has been very strategic about going and directly locking up these resources and investing in these areas.

But I think that with the premium in China that you see on things like silver and the fact that 60% or something of the refining capacity is there for silver, you’re gonna see. Scrap can, and I think, I’m sure it’s already happening and I think it’s gonna increase if this premium, certainly it’s gonna draw in the metal, both for the refining services as well as the fact they get a premium when they sell it domestically.

So yes, they’re gonna be drawing in metal here in the US with the Comex. I mean there is definitely a big stockpile metal on the q on the Comex. But yes, that can be cleaned out. You know, there are scenarios in, in the case of money metals I’ll just reveal that. Back in October, we were involved in sending several hundred thousand ounces to Dubai for end users in India who were just absolutely pounding the table.

You know, I mentioned the 30 cents per ounce financing cost for people that were short metal or who were leasing metal. What we had. So, you know, we were hearing from people in Asia and India in particular. We were like desperately needing metal desperately, and they were paying this overnight financing cost.

They were screaming, you know, the extra two or three days it took the, the deposit depositories were backlogged, but the extra couple days it took was costing them massive amounts, you know, to just to get it out and then to get it shipped and they were flying it over there, which is unusual. You, you don’t normally fly silver.

But when the costs are so high of financing it, time is very valuable. So we sent about 15 pallets of thousand ounce bars to Dubai that were intended for India. And so it’s, it’s absolutely doable and that has been happening to an extent. The Comex stocks are, are declining. They, they’d gone way up during that whole tariff thing early last year where the, there was a premium premium in New York and it pulled metal from London.

So it was actually kind of overstocked there, or more highly stocked than it had been. That’s now draining. It, it doesn’t take much. I mean, what is it? The, the registered category has a hundred, a hundred million ounces. So, I mean, that’s, and there’s about 400 million in the exchange when there’s these big dislocations, the financial incentive to pull metal from anywhere, including the Comex are, are quite high.

So I’m honestly surprised that it hasn’t happened more than it already, than it already has, frankly, here in the us. I, I’m surprised that a lot of it hasn’t left already. I’m sure some has, but I, I, you know, it could happen very quickly. For people that are selling metal back right now, I’ve heard $15.

There was some guy on Twitter telling everyone he couldn’t sell less than. 30% under spot, what is the market out there? What should people be roughly expecting to get? So they, if they do need to sell, they don’t get themselves in trouble? Yeah, well the bids are not great, but they are coming up the last few days.

We’ve, we’ve already raised bids. We’re gonna raise ’em again. Silver eagles, the bids are, are coming up probably to the four or $5 under spot range. That, those will probably come up pretty fast here because of what’s happening on the ask side. When you deal with bars and rounds, you’re still looking at, you know, 9, 10, 11, $12.

But again, I think that, you know, that was especially the case when silver was $120 an ounce a week ago, and now we’re seeing those, those bids come up particularly as you start seeing the lopsided much more people. Buying, then selling. And so now all of a sudden, you know that pre the inventories are getting cleared out and that allows the spreads to, to, to narrow.

Especially on the bid side, those will come up. So junk silver though, I gotta tell you, I mean, wholesalers are, even wholesalers are now bidding like 19, 18, $17. Under spot. So like a local coin shop is probably gonna be not able to get you even $20 under spot on junk silver. And, but again, I think that’s gonna be a short term scenario.

So I, I just wouldn’t really be selling right now, honestly, unless you need to let the spreads, you know, narrow and maybe silver will come back up. So, but it, it’s not as liquid as it has been. But the other thing to keep in in mind though, is. The percentages. So, you know, when, when, you know, $4, a $4 premium when silver was at $30, that’s 13% right?

When a, a $6 premium, $8 premium when silver’s at 85, that’s, that’s a lot. That’s a lower percentage. So, you know, what is that? 7%, 8%? So that’s the other thing to keep in mind, and that’s really the most important thing. Wrapping up, can you just let folks know where they can find you? Yeah. That’s okay. Yeah, so Money Metals Exchange, we’re one of the top three largest online dealers and deposit depositories in the us.

Been around since 2010, so 16 years. We located in Idaho. We help customers all over the country and internationally, but we’re mostly focused on us. Our depository is the largest depository. Outside of the New York Fed, at least in terms of being a Class three vault, it’s twice the size of Fort Knox.

8,500 square feet, four massive vaults. We store, we buy, we sell, we even lend. If you wanna get a line of credit against your own gold or silver in our depository, if you have a business purpose, we’re a lender. Interest rates are well under 10%. It’s a revolving line of credit. It’s not like a pawn shop type situation.

It’s very flexible. It’s an accommodation. Not many people wanna do that. That’s certainly, you know, fine. But you know, you can’t go to a bank and get a line of credit against your gold and silver. They don’t, they don’t know how to value it. They don’t know how to store it. They don’t know how to liquidate it.

They hate it. That’s the other thing. It’s kryptonite for the bank, for the bankers. So there’s no way you can get this from a bank, but at money metals, you can get a line of credit against your own holdings in your segregated storage account if you, if you want. It has to be for a business purpose. But so that eliminates a lot of, a lot of potential borrowers.

Anyway, we’re happy to help money. We can’t take it and lever up on a GQ options. On margin. Yeah. And we don’t, we don’t encourage, we don’t allow people to use to immediately buy gold and silver. It’s not the purpose of the loan. I mean, obviously money is fungible, but it’s, it has to be a business purpose.

A lot of real estate investors, small business people, family wealth offices, different, different types, but not for consum not to put a new roof on your house, but, you know, ultimately that is an attractive option right now in the context of people who are sitting on a lot of capital gains. Because if you were to use your, if you were to sell your gold and silver for liquidity, which you can do, and obviously they’re liquid assets, but you incur a taxable event and, and potentially pay, have to pay capital gains tax at this crazy 28%.

Discriminator, high capital gains tax rate. And so borrowing against your gold and silver to get liquidity is an attractive option for those people in that, in that situation. And, and, and that again, if they have a business purpose and it has to be their metal, obviously not, it has nothing to do with anyone else’s metal, your metal in a se segregated container at many Money Metals Depository in Idaho, and we can give you a line of credit secured by that.